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ASMI Sports Medicine Forum :: Other Sports :: Other :: Wrist Velocity v. Ball Velocity
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AuthorTopic: Wrist Velocity v. Ball Velocity (Read 484 times)
dheepa
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Wrist Velocity v. Ball Velocity
« Thread Started on Aug 1, 2008, 12:59pm »
A colleague of ASMI sent us a clip from Sports Science http://multimedia.foxsports.com/m/video/....tm?pageid=15538 , reporting that a quarterback’s wrist moves faster than that of a baseball pitcher’s even though the ball velocity of the thrown football was less than that of the thrown baseball. The colleague thought that this didn’t make sense. We analyzed data from the ASMI database of a quarterback and a college-level pitcher (where the ratio of the ball velocities of the football to the baseball were comparable to those from the Sports Science clip –around 65%). We thought the results may be interesting, so here they are.

Sports Science reported that the quarterback’s wrist was traveling 82 mph at ball release, resulting in a 60 mph ball velocity, and the pitcher’s wrist was traveling at 73 mph at ball release, resulting in a 93 mph ball velocity.

We found that our quarterback’s wrist was traveling at 31 mph at ball release, resulting in a 48 mph ball velocity, and that our pitcher’s wrist was traveling at 73 mph resulting in a 93 mph ball velocity.

From just a couple of pairs of subjects, we can clearly see a difference between the ASMI data and the Sports Science data. It is worth noting that the Sports Science velocity data came from integration of accelerometer data, whereas the ASMI velocity data came from differentiation of position data. Bottom line, we agree with our colleague that wrist velocity in excess of ball velocity (i.e. the Sports Science quarterback) is hard to believe. Our belief is that wrist velocity for any throw is probably slightly less than ball velocity.

Dheepa and A.C.
ASMI student researchers
« Last Edit: Aug 1, 2008, 1:01pm by dheepa »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
miketace
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Re: Wrist Velocity v. Ball Velocity
« Reply #1 on Mar 11, 2009, 6:04pm »
You may want to look at wrist velocity vs. ball velocity for a curve ball as a more appropriate comparison with throwing a football. The fingers tend to be directly behind a fastball when pitching. The fingers are not directly behind the ball when throwing a football making the application of force different. That may be why you see the lower velocities when throwing a football.

Even so I would be inclined to have more faith in your results with the football. I also find the 82 mph wrist velocity to be difficult to fathom in and of itself with a much heavier ball than a baseball. You might want to contact them to see if they simply reversed their numbers. An 82 mph velocity at release might be consistent with how far an elite professional quarterback can throw a football.
« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2009, 6:15pm by miketace »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
curious
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Re: Wrist Velocity v. Ball Velocity
« Reply #2 on Mar 22, 2009, 9:09am »
"Our belief is that wrist velocity for any throw is probably slightly less than ball velocity."

This is a fascinating topic.

I was unable to access the FoxSports video, which may have answered this question:

Is wrist velocity essentially the same as the velocity of the hand as it releases the ball?

If it is, then I'm not clear how a fastball--hand behind the ball-- could exit the hand at a speed faster than the hand is moving. (I am not a scientist).

I always assumed that in order to throw a 90 mph fastball, the hand had to moving 90 mph at release.

If anything, it seems that the fastball would exit the hand at a lower speed than the hand speed because of friction with the fingers.
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paulygirl
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Re: Wrist Velocity v. Ball Velocity
« Reply #3 on Nov 3, 2009, 8:41pm »
This response is relative to live testing I have done with Fastpitch softball relative to the contribution that wrist snap has on pitch speed.
The test is simple: 1. Just measure the fastball speed of a reasonably accomplished pitcher.
2. Then put a bowlers glove on that pitchers wrist (the bowlers glove locks the wrist so it can't bend). Now measure the speed your pitcher can throw. Most pitchers will come within 1-2 MPH of their top speed.

I find this interesting 'cause I see/hear lots of emphasis placed on wrist snaps in softball pitching training drills. My simple conclusion is that the fingers supply a significantly higher % of force into the ball than wrist snap does. This is one reason why I place a lot of emphasis on grip strength and very little emphasis on wrist snap.
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