### Post by waynesplash on Apr 12, 2010 11:52:33 GMT -6

Hi,

Sorry I am not that good at explaining and my not too good Grammar, and if you do have time, thank you in advance.

muscle tension and force I will describe two different scenarios, which please do you say puts the most overall tension and fatigue on the muscles, the faster or slower of the rep speed models, and which produces the most overall force

Let us say we are doing the bench press, but it could be any lift. Say there are three people with identical strengths and everything else. They are using 80% of their 1RM, ROM is say 20inchs. {50cm} Which rep cadence puts the most fatigue thus overall tension on the muscles.

Scenario 1,

First one does his bench press at a 2/4 rep cadence, which is as you know, 2 seconds concentric and 4 seconds eccentric, he does 5 reps = 24 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 100inches {250cm} in all. And immediately hits muscular failure after the fifth rep.

Second one does his bench press at a .5/.5 rep cadence, he does 24 reps = 24 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 480inches {1200cm} in all. And immediately hits muscular failure after the twenty-fourth rep.

Scenario 2,

Bench press at a 2/4, he does 1 rep = 6 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 40inches {100cm} in all.

Bench press at a .5/.5, he does 1 rep = 1 second of lifting, moving the weight 40inches {100cm} in all.

Bench press at a .5/.5, he does 6 reps = 6 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 240inches {600cm} in all.

As I said, we worked out the forces to lift a 100kg at the different speeds up and down, and the average force needed was basically the same for both the 1 rep of each speed reps. However, as you know when a given load is lifted very fast, the acceleration component means that the forces exerted on the load (and thereby by the muscles) by far exceeds the nominal weight of the load. Even thou the average forces were the same, the slower lifting time I would have said, would have put less tension on the muscles, as with the fast lifting model we are lifting the weight up and down 19 more times in the same time frame, or in the second scenario the weight is lifter 5 more times.

And as you know far better than me, that a small force applied for a long time can produce the same momentum change, as a large force applied briefly, but as I said, with the fast lifting model we are lifting the weight up and down 5 more times in the same time frame, or in the first scenario the weight is lifted 19 more times, thus I would have thought 19 more average forces used by the muscle equals 19 more tensions to the muscles, and more power {work energy} used more overall tension on the muscles.

Because it is the product of the force and the time for which it is applied that is important. As the slower lifting and lowering was a lower force lift, as it was done over a longer time frame, in the 1 rep at .5/.5 against the 1 rep at 2/4.

Fast rep, forces required to accelerate the weight up and down, at .5/.5 one time.

1962 kg m/s^2

Slow rep, forces required to accelerate the weight up and down at 2/4 one time.

1999.5 m/s^2

However, we did not take into account and add in the peak forces, that will be at the transition from negative to positive; we call them the MMMTs. {Momentary Maximum Muscle Tensions}

Thus if the average forces are the same 1 rep of each rep, even that the slower rep has more time under tension, it also has a lower force under a longer tension. And as with the negatives, two of the faster negatives would = 1 slow negative.

Thus if we could add forces up, and to be tensions on the muscles it would be.

Fast rep,

1962 x 6 = 11772T

Slow rep,

1999.5 x 1 = 1999.5T

Thx for you time again.

Wayne

Sorry I am not that good at explaining and my not too good Grammar, and if you do have time, thank you in advance.

muscle tension and force I will describe two different scenarios, which please do you say puts the most overall tension and fatigue on the muscles, the faster or slower of the rep speed models, and which produces the most overall force

Let us say we are doing the bench press, but it could be any lift. Say there are three people with identical strengths and everything else. They are using 80% of their 1RM, ROM is say 20inchs. {50cm} Which rep cadence puts the most fatigue thus overall tension on the muscles.

Scenario 1,

First one does his bench press at a 2/4 rep cadence, which is as you know, 2 seconds concentric and 4 seconds eccentric, he does 5 reps = 24 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 100inches {250cm} in all. And immediately hits muscular failure after the fifth rep.

Second one does his bench press at a .5/.5 rep cadence, he does 24 reps = 24 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 480inches {1200cm} in all. And immediately hits muscular failure after the twenty-fourth rep.

Scenario 2,

Bench press at a 2/4, he does 1 rep = 6 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 40inches {100cm} in all.

Bench press at a .5/.5, he does 1 rep = 1 second of lifting, moving the weight 40inches {100cm} in all.

Bench press at a .5/.5, he does 6 reps = 6 seconds of lifting, moving the weight 240inches {600cm} in all.

As I said, we worked out the forces to lift a 100kg at the different speeds up and down, and the average force needed was basically the same for both the 1 rep of each speed reps. However, as you know when a given load is lifted very fast, the acceleration component means that the forces exerted on the load (and thereby by the muscles) by far exceeds the nominal weight of the load. Even thou the average forces were the same, the slower lifting time I would have said, would have put less tension on the muscles, as with the fast lifting model we are lifting the weight up and down 19 more times in the same time frame, or in the second scenario the weight is lifter 5 more times.

And as you know far better than me, that a small force applied for a long time can produce the same momentum change, as a large force applied briefly, but as I said, with the fast lifting model we are lifting the weight up and down 5 more times in the same time frame, or in the first scenario the weight is lifted 19 more times, thus I would have thought 19 more average forces used by the muscle equals 19 more tensions to the muscles, and more power {work energy} used more overall tension on the muscles.

Because it is the product of the force and the time for which it is applied that is important. As the slower lifting and lowering was a lower force lift, as it was done over a longer time frame, in the 1 rep at .5/.5 against the 1 rep at 2/4.

Fast rep, forces required to accelerate the weight up and down, at .5/.5 one time.

1962 kg m/s^2

Slow rep, forces required to accelerate the weight up and down at 2/4 one time.

1999.5 m/s^2

However, we did not take into account and add in the peak forces, that will be at the transition from negative to positive; we call them the MMMTs. {Momentary Maximum Muscle Tensions}

Thus if the average forces are the same 1 rep of each rep, even that the slower rep has more time under tension, it also has a lower force under a longer tension. And as with the negatives, two of the faster negatives would = 1 slow negative.

Thus if we could add forces up, and to be tensions on the muscles it would be.

Fast rep,

1962 x 6 = 11772T

Slow rep,

1999.5 x 1 = 1999.5T

Thx for you time again.

Wayne