Post by Glenn Fleisig, Ph.D. on Jan 17, 2017 14:01:37 GMT -6
I understand your point about the pronation. Almost all pitchers in our database had some deviations from the elite average, so we were diligent in finding a pitcher within the elite ranges. The pitcher we ended up using in the pictures (the guy below), has excellent mechanics throughout his motion, including his external rotation at the instant of foot contact. Remember, we are looking at "the instant the front foot makes contact with the mound", not the later time when the foot is flat. This pitcher picture is close to the 45 degree rotation we recommend. Currently, pronation is not one of the variables we routinely quantify at the instant of foot contact, so I don't know if this pitcher is out of the normal range. It does look like his pronation is above normal, but again I don't have his numbers. Since this pitcher had so many aspects within the normal range, we are going to leave him on the PlayBall page, especially since we did fix the wording about showing the ball to the SS or 2Bman instead of the base (as you suggested).
Post by thepainguy on Jan 23, 2017 11:54:49 GMT -6
A few thoughts and comments
1. Here's Justin Verlander at stride foot contact and 80 degrees of external rotation. Are you saying that Justin Verlander's pitching mechanics are flawed?
2. Here's Mariano Rivera at stride foot contact and 90 degrees of external rotation. Are you saying that Mariano Rivera's pitching mechanics are flawed?
I ask that question in part because, a year ago, the pitching coordinator for the Yankees implicitly said that much; he showed a picture of Rivera and then gave ASMI's guidelines for external rotation at stride foot contact.
3. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm trying to make a point; that many of the recommendations that I'm seeing are diverging from reality. I think that's due in part to the over-reliance on data that is acquired via biomechanics labs. I make that case in this piece.
4. In my experience, stride foot contact is an unreliable metric. It always has been, and is becoming increasingly less reliable, at least when it comes to judging the start of the rotation of the shoulders.
A. All stride foot contact isn't created equal. I see very different things in heel landers, inside of the foot landers, and toe landers.
B. For that reason, I have based my analyses on stride foot PLANT not stride foot CONTACT.
C. Stride Foot Plant isn't as reliable as it used to be. Increasingly, I am ignoring what the front foot does and when it plants and am judging timing based on CF views of the pitcher and am focused on when the pitching arm side elbow starts rotating around toward the plate.
Again, not trying to be a jerk. Just trying to point out problems with how the industry is evaluating pitchers, and move the ball forward.